Unfortunately, the controversy over the Monroe Park renovations and the feeding programs continues to grow, with the media circling.
Here’s a simple question:
Will Food Not Bombs be allowed to serve food in Monroe Park after renovations are done?
Yes or No?
Is there a definitive, official answer?
Of course there are other important questions in regard to this, but it seems to me that this needs to be answered first by civic leadership to dispel or confirm some of the fear and distrust that surround the issue. I might add, without injecting further personal opinion, that there is a history to this that you may or may not agree with.
(Alright, a little more personal opinion: there are a few citizens on different sides of the issue, and they know who they are, who are doing what they can to keep lines of communication open and they deserve appreciation).
I believe Food Not Bombs has Constitutional protections to distribute food in any public place they want to. It is a form of Free Expression, Religious Freedom, and Freedom of Assembly.
As long as they are not obstructing walkways, they have a right to be in any public park or space.
I don’t think the opinion of any civic leader trumps the Bill of Rights.
Parks have regulations, no dogs, no loud music, no alcohol, shelters and special uses require permits and reservations. There’s nothing in the constitution that guarantees a regular gig at the park.
The First Amendment doesn’t actually allow people to just do whatever the hell they want. Parks have plenty of reasonable rules people are obligated to follow. There are so many other places this operation can use in the meantime; I like the idea of using Kanawha Plaza or other downtown location that was suggested before. Easily accessible, not in the middle of other people trying to use the park … what is this with this intense attachment to Monroe Park, anyway?
Commentors seem to be missing the specific ‘yes or no’ aspect of the post’s question….
To answer Emily, part of FNB’s beliefs is that food should be served visibly in the open in a public place. Poverty is not something that should be shuffled out of sight by the powers that be.
I’m not talking about “shuffled out of sight” just moved downtown. Monroe Park isn’t exactly the only public place in Richmond.
The feeding program itself doesn’t bother me at all–I feel strongly no one should be going hungry–but the recipients’ hanging around the rest of the week, urinating in the open and aggressively harrassing people for money makes a lot of folks avoid the park. I’ve witnessed/experienced this personally numerous times, so please don’t try to say they aren’t doing it. I don’t advocate making “poverty” invisible, but this behavior is unacceptable to almost everyone. Having lived within about a mile of Monroe Park for 20 years now, I can say it’s been much worse, but it’s never been pleasant. The park should be nice for everyone, including those of us who aren’t homeless as well.
At the Monroe Park Advisory Board Meeting in early October they were told Yes. They will be able to resume feedings fully at Monroe Park once the renovation is complete.
I was in attendance at the meeting representing a student group that uses the park for play, twice weekly.
Silver,
Correct me if I’m wrong but the Bill of Rights does not give any group the right assemble anywhere for whatever reason. For example, if you want to use the park then there should be a permit process such as large activities in other parks have to go through (High on the Hog in Libby Hill Park years ago). Stop spouting all that free expression and religious crap…there are limits to what you have the right to do.
Additionally, there are plenty of places that you can do this besides Monroe Park. Emily made a good point but I believe ya’ll are just pushing things to make a point. Everyone else who may want to enjoy the park be damned! But MUST get use of the park regardless of how anyone else feels!
Thanks Buck. For further clarification, you are saying that MPAC told FNB this or did it come from another official source?
So, going by this, the definitive answer is yes, Food Not Bombs will be allowed to serve food in Monroe Park after renovations are done.
To me, this is good news and hopefully alleviate some concerns, but there are still other legitimate questions to answer that I will try to get to in another post.
SEW,
Yes, the Constitution does give you the right assemble anywhere for whatever reason.
It states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
SEW, you may have noticed there were no qualifiers on the
“right of the people peaceably to assemble.”
Your reference to “free expression and religious crap” betrays the low regard you hold for these rights. I choose to exercise my Rights and not let tyrannical individuals like yourself ruin my good time or spoil my rights and the rights of others.
The larger argument is ultimately about Freedom, and the rights of Citizens and individuals, to assemble and exercise political speech and action. I think the political statement that FNB is making is that society is fucked up and that Food is a Right, not a Privilege. I agree with both of those sentiments.
Comparing High on the Hog, an event that attracts thousands, to a FNB feeding of 100 individuals, is ludicrous.
I’m not so adamant about continuing to serve at Monroe Park, but I think the community should be involved in the decision and clearly there is a desire by some to keep the park open.
There is no shame in making concessions to the public.
I do not recall who said exactly what and with what authority. The exact feeling I received from the MPAC was that FNB would not be prevented from returning after the renovations. There was also some talk at that meeting by members of the MPAC to use the expanded web presence that is planned for Monroe Park to form a feeding schedule in order to prevent the waste that occurs when several groups attempt to feed at the same time.
The MPAC specifically told FNB that the MPAC had no power to advise on the how and when of the renovation process. That was a matter that would be decided by the Richmond park service and the engineers it employs to perform the renovation.
I personally can’t wait for this renovation. The increases in grassland and the removal of the lowered concrete pathways will provide a park that is safe to use by groups such as mine. We have had several close calls when someone trips off the curb and landed on the concrete.
“I do not recall who said exactly what and with what authority. The exact feeling I received from the MPAC was that FNB would not be prevented from returning after the renovations.”
Well then, who can recall? I retract what I commented earlier about having a definitve answer.
I am looking forward to renovations also, but this needs to be resolved.
The post’s question still stands. Where’s civic leadership?
I dont get it. We havent even got funding to do the park and people are squawking like baby chickens- me me me…this IS NOT about the homeless. As for parading homeless people in public to get a needed meal, that is just sick. The Bible speaks of not hiding your poor but forcing them to parade in public is twisted and if that is truly the belief of this or any group than im opposed. FNB is going through precedent setting hearings now in Orlando for feeding in Public parks:
http://www.aclufl.org/news_events/?action=viewRelease&emailAlertID=3668
No one has told anyone that they cant feed in Monroe Park once it’s done. You use the Park, though, and you dont leave litter and piles of trash and rotten food lying there. Leave the Park BETTER than you found it! I wish everyone would SHUT UP and even help the Park get needed improvements. The only way someone can be barred from a Richmond Park is if they consistently misbehave there. Then Police can record their name and kick them out. A person banned from using the Park can request reinstatement from head of Dept of Parks.
Seeking official answer to simple question about future public use of park-
Will Food Not Bombs will be allowed to serve food in Monroe Park after renovations are done?
Silver, I bet you could get a good argument on that point. There are plenty of restrictions on when and where you can assemble. For instance, the park closes at dusk. Try to exercise your constitutional rights then and you’ll be asked to leave. You can’t hold a street demonstration without a permit. In many places you can’t demonstrate within 100 yards of an abortion clinic. The bottom line is you can’t do whatever you want, whenever you want wherever you want.
If FNB needs a convenient location to do their work, maybe they could use the William Byrd House. Do you think anybody in Oregon Hill would object?
As I suggested before, why can’t FNB move to Kanawha Plaza at 8th and Canal downtown? Homeless hang out there already. It’s easily accessible. FNB seems so stuck on staying around in Monroe Park.
Also, I give props to Todd Woodson’s comment above.
Yes, but FNB needs a permit!
Below are more talking points:
1. FNB serves only one meal per week….what do the homeless (soon to be parkless) do for food for the rest of the 6.66666 days of the week?!
2. In addition to City Council, I would like to see FNB and Persinger attack Mother Nature for kicking the homeless out of Monroe Park with her ‘reverse global warming snow storms’ in ’09 and ’10…were the homeless forced to travling to shelters…if so, how did they get there?
3. If I was homeless, I would not be very picky where I received help from…even if it was near a jail or in a jail. Should the homeless also be scared when they see a VCU Police Officer?
4. FNB needs to create a subsidary called HNB: Houses Not Bombs. They should demand City Council to also contruct public housing in Monroe Park.
5. The poor receives too much sympathy….what they need is tough love and an opportunity to turn their lives around (hand ups, not hand outs), but many (not all) of them choose to drink, do drugs, or be lazy… to really improve their lives it has to come within! I knew many high school students who constantly skipped school to get drunk and do bong hits and would not be surprised to see them out there in Monroe Park!
It’s kind of like when Jimmy Buffet said, “I made enough money to buy Miami, but I pissed it away so fast”…many of the homeless have pissed away many opportunities over the course of their live and now it’s our fault!
6. It would be funny if every Sunday that “Fat Cat Oil Executives” (300+) with sear sucker suites and monocules played croquet while eating caviar and drinking sparkling cider overran Monroe Park…Persinger and other liberals would go bezerk demanding that they hold a permit and pay for it too!
In the end, and as a final thought…I would like to propse the:
GREEN COMPROMISE
Tear up Monroe Park and cover it with solar panels!!!
P.S. Yo Persinger…you should make your 1st Amendment right comment an issue for 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w–caMPDR94
As Todd said, there’s a lot of squawking.
All I am asking for at the moment is an answer to a question. I understand MPAC is well-intentioned (and should be congratulated for their work), the question speaks to authority.
Will Food Not Bombs will be allowed to serve food in Monroe Park after renovations are done?
My Silver,
You sure are a high and mightly one aren’t you… No one can stop you from doing what you want to do…
I wish you much luck!
SEW,
I don’t know why I’m you consider me high and mighty. I’m merely expressing my opinion. And I believe that individuals have more rights than just what the government decides to mete out.
Scott, to answer your question, the official statement of MPAC and the City has been “yes”. However, we are concerned that many of the proposed plans will prevent this from happening. In many of their own meeting notes, they talk ALOT about how they can discourage feeding programs, ban them, and they even hired a groundskeeper who, as part of their official job description, is to “discourage feeding programs”. There is A LOT of anti-poor and anti-homeless language that makes us VERY suspicious of the true motivations of the City. Not to mention that this has happened before.
And Todd, why do you attack us as a bunch of liberals? Because you don’t agree? Because you think the poor are a bunch of drunks? I am not a liberal. If you want to argue a point, try and do it without ad hominem attacks. Most of your other points are based on false information as well, or just abstract theoretical ideas, which I can’t get into on a comments board. Do your research before having such a strong opinion about who we are.
monroecampaign.wordpress.com or monroepark.org
Yes Nathan- Ive come to the conclusion that FNB is just looking for publicity.
FNB is not entirely interested in publicity, though they are attention, err, seekers. They also don’t want their weekly social activity to be interrupted. Especially because that weekly activity allows them to feel morally superior, even though we all know that they treat the homeless like pet hamsters to be occasionally fed. What is actually best for the homeless is clearly not their concern.
Their “demands” are humorous though. In that “I’m a sophomore at a liberal arts college and I fight the power provided it doesn’t effect the value of my Dad’s portfolio” kind of way.
If Monroe Park wants the homeless out (which appears to be the point of this), then why not put that 6 million dollars towards a homeless shelter? Or towards affordable housing? Perhaps towards helping people in their city period instead of renovating a park. A park renovation is nice, but is it needed? No. You renovate a park, you’re going to have the same issues becuase you’re not addressing the real problem.
These are humans we are talking about. They’re not objects. They may be poor, they may be bothersome sometimes, but they are humans. Some of the comments I have read on here are just disgusting. It’s really hard to imagine civilized people speaking this way.
They have a right to be at the park. They have a right to have their voices heard – no matter how drunk, how homeless, how high, how poor they might be.
Have some empathy before looking down at another human.
And as far as FNB wanting publicity, what would be the point in that? Before this was an issue, no one really knew about FNB and the group has been around long enough that people should know.
I don’t believe FNB is doing this for publicity because it does not benefit them and they have been doing since the early 90’s, so why now all of sudden become public? The homeless population appreciates what they do – they look forward to the meals on Sundays. I honestly cannot see what is so wrong with cooking food and serving it to another human being in a public setting.
how does more “publicity” benefit FNB? an organization made of volunteers and has virtually no budget? How do you justify the anti-homeless and anti-poor language in an organization YOU are a part of? MPAC told us they didn’t design the whole masterplan, just endorsed it. Fine. So publicly denounce that anti-poor language contained in it. And how do you explain the questions of “can we ban them?” and hiring someone to “discourage feeding programs” contained in MPACs meeting minutes from 2007? How do you explain the Master Plan and all the meeting minutes being taken down from the website as soon as we bring up these concerns, and not to mention the lack of publication of any of your meeting notes since 2007? MPAC is an organization appointed by the City. Shouldn’t there be more transparency?
and Todd W, I was speaking to the other Todd that called Silver and us “a bunch of liberals.” Which neither Silver or myself are. Food Not Bombs does not endorse any political party or ideology. You have been one of the few MPAC members to continue to engage us in conversation, which I appreciate, but the tense language isn’t really needed. I’m sorry that some within our group have been more aggressive, but as you probably know, you can’t control what others say sometimes, even within your own organization.
Also, FNB used to have a “Homes Not Jails” program in the city, but we do not have as many resources now, and a housing program is very very costly. We do partner with housing advocate programs and homeless advocate programs in addition to our feedings. We don’t believe what we do is the solution to all the problems, just that people need to eat. Regardless of what they are doing to get themselves out of a bad situation.
Some speak of tough love, a large percentage of “street people” are mentally ill and/or disabled, perhaps we should build a “ship of fools” and launch the unfortunate problem to sea. This is our shadow we speak of and all the bootstrap talk reveals only how much closer to poverty and homelessness the speaker is.
Oliver Twist…you just proved my point that Monroe Park in insufficient to provide adequate care for the mentally ill and disabled: only one meal per week and then they are exposed to the elements of nature. Wouldn’t you and others like to spend your time encouraging these people to seek help at a more qualified facility like http://www.freedomhouserichmond.org/ When you click on the link, there is a place to donate and even buy GRTC tickets for the homeless to travel.
My apologies for calling Silver Persinger a liberal…he’s a socialist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTb69L0gSEE
Todd, I used to work at Freedom House back when it was at Canal and Belvidere.
It may have changed since then, but back then it did not offer a Sunday meal. Food Not Bombs fulfilled that need.
A quick look at the website suggests Freedom House still does not offer a Sunday meal.
http://www.freedomhouserichmond.org/html/programs.htm
“We continue to serve meals five days a week to an average of 300 people daily.”
In regard to the original question of this post, the best answer I have seen so far is from Nathan:
the official statement of MPAC and the City has been “yes”.
This is great news! FNB can serve their meals at Freedom House on Sundays…case closed!!
There are easily a dozen different providers serving meals at Monroe Park on Sundays and a dozen alternate locations that can be used.
The ROC church sends a bus every Sunday to pick up all comers for food and fellowship, indoors. There is no reason other church and social groups couldn’t do the same. There are so many alternatives to using Monroe Park, that it shouldn’t be an issue to anyone who is looking for a solution.
In the meantime I hear no other neighborhoods volunteering to take the homeless. When that happens I’ll have a bit more respect for the critics.
The original question was not about alternatives, but that question might be posed in another post.
It seems to have dominated the discussion here.
Let us posed the question to the Mayor personally. I am Rev. J. E. Gash, the Executive Minister of TAHM. in my opinion the answer revolves around Human Rights, which we champion. I shall post his answer, if any.
To Todd Woodson’s comment: FNB Orlando lost in the Eleventh District Court of Appeals back in July of 2010. The next step is the U.S. Supreme Court. FNB co-founder Kieth McHenry told me Sunday that other FNB groups have been denied usage of re-vamped parks, exactly because the cities involved had spent such tremendous amounts of money on them that they did not want to have their Parks “messed up”. The poor of this city will not,(and some of them cannot)”go somewhere else”. This is a PUBLIC Park and the PUBLIC should be allowed there.
to Allen Harrelson’s comment: If i’m not mistaken, Allen, the 3 judge panel that made the ruling in july has vacated that decision pending an en banc (all judges of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals) hearing coming up. Not yet to the Supreme Court although it could get there. One more shot in the 11th Circuit Court coming up.
http://floridaindependent.com/7063/orlando-homeless-advocates-win-temporary-victory-in-public-feeding-case
Could someone please contact the ACLU!!! I was looking at the Monroe Park rules and outraged that the park hours are from sunrise to sunset….the PUBLIC should be able to use the park whenever: http://www.richmondgov.com/parks/parkMonroe.aspx
Correct on the Circuit Court.
Just “solve” the “homeless problem” by “dispossessing” them of the Park, “shipping them to the East” across the street from the “prison camp” and let them eat and get a nice warm “shower” at the Cancer…oops…Conrad Center.
Lord have mercy, you FNB people really seem to know everything don’t you? The only problem with the homeless now is how to move them while the park is being renovated. Just do it! There are plenty or churches in the area that might be willing to help out. God forbid you use the Conrad Center (a center set up to deal with them). Why does it matter it’s across the street from the JAIL (not prison camp)? It seems all ya’ll want to do is bitch and complain…what about helping the homeless?
Allen…let’s assume that the park stays open during renovation… you also associated the Conrad Center with cancer…then what is your plan for helping the homeless?
A definitive plan please!!
Let us not forget that Oregon Hill was located across the street from a State Prison for many years. I admit ive never been to the Conrad center so I wont speak on the facilities attributes or shortcomings until I do. Melba Gibbs says they serve 2 meals a day there mon-fri to a full house. I wonder how homeless people get there mon-fri…
And lets all be good to one another and work toward a positive solution.
Anybody interested in taking a guided tour of the Conrad Center? Some facts on the Conrad Center:
* the program has been in existence for 27 years
* they serve an average of 300 people 5 days a week
* they will serve over 48,000 meals in 2010 alone and also provide other forms of assistance.
* THEY NEED VOLUNTEERS!
http://www.freedomhouserichmond.org/html/ConradCenter.htm
1 I’m not in FNB although they provide one of the best meals in the Park.
2 The soil at the Conrad Center has tested positive for carcinogens.
3 Oregon Hill is where many of the families of those incarcerated at Spring St. Prison lived for years.
4 Leave 25-50% of Monroe Park open during renovations so that the many good people who serve there may continue to do so. The petition for this has topped 700 people from as far away as Rio, South Africa, and England.
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/keep_monroe_open_public
So Allen, are you saying:
a) Families moved to Oregon Hill after members incarcerated?
b) The State Pen specialized in jailing Hill Dwellers?
Either way you are wrong. Oregon Hill was mainly populated by the workers at Tredegar and other Industrial concerns.
I had a great Uncle that was a prison guard in the early 1900’s and lived on Holly St.
If a dangerous level of carcinogens were found in the soil of the Conrad Center, please provide proof of your accusation. If you cant provide proof and just heard it “from some dude” then we’ll have to conclude you are chronically disengaged from the truth. Good Luck, Allen!
Allen…you should be more worried about the carcinogens in the cigarettes that both the homeless and homefull smoke…you should create a petition to ban smoking in Monroe Park…
todd r……
You should take up smoking.
To Woodson:
As for Oregon Hill, I’m talking about the mid to late 1800’s…see Virginius Dabney’s book on Virginia. As for my carcinogen statement, get a court order. I’m certainly not going to tell a shill for VCU where I get my information.
Allen, you are way off-base for calling Woodson “a shill for VCU”. If it was not for Woodson, VCU might have just annexed Monroe Park and chopped down all the trees like was originally suggested. Woodson and several Oregon Hill neighbors have done the best we can to hold VCU accountable for Trani’s empire building. Never mind 1800’s, I think you need to familiarize yourself with what has happened in the last 15 years and figure out who’s who before you start throwing out accusations of “shill”.
These insults back and forth are counterproductive, in my opinion.
And as for carcinogens at Conrad Center, I too would like proof of such a statement. I alluded to the pushing of the homeless towards “17th and O” as context for my question.
Now on to another question…
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